(Kiri presents a layout for self-sufficiency for hard times, basically a shopping list of ways to prepare for those out in the country with land to work. Getting by without money is one way she shows is something not impossible to do in a society without money.) 

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Russ: okay, next question. Money or its substitute is a necessary requisite for our current life on third dimension.

Kiri: yes.

Russ: now, getting past its dependence, is that a part of raising consciousness or is the ability to use it as a means to increase consciousness?

Kiri: both.

Russ: okay.

Kiri: you use it as a means to an ends which in this case would to be increasing consciousness but you also learn how to use it and that it is not necessary. But by learning to use it and realizing that you can do without it. For example, you buy land right? Let's say 20 acres right? Is that about right, nice large area?

John: okay yeah.

Kiri: okay you put 10 acres to pursuit of raising cattle and chickens so that you can get food and so on right?

John: right.

Kiri: use 10 acres to grow tubers, carrots, peas, beans, sprouts, whatever you want in the vegetable department. Lettuce, strawberries, herbs, etc., etc. etc. right?

John: yeah.

Kiri: you learn how to use, if you have pigs you learn how to make methane. And what can you do with methane?

Russ: methane, you can use it for an energy source.

John: you can use it for a fuel source.

Kiri: that's right so you don't need outside. If you've got a permanent water supply going through the land, you don't need outside help. With the cattle when you slaughter them, what you do with their hides?

John: you would tan them and make them into clothes and shoes.

Kiri: that's right and if you have sheep as well, what you do with the sheep?

John: you would use the wool to make clothing.

Kiri: uh-huh, what are you now?

Russ: self-sufficient.

Kiri: totally self-sufficient. Totally independent, self-sufficient, no problems whatsoever. Thirty acres would be a much better, manageable area.

Russ: true. Now what I'm looking at is in our future where we're dealing with problems of no money let's say.

Kiri: that goes back to the 30 acres.

Russ: okay, let's say if you don't have 30 acres and you have to deal with raising your consciousness but also self-survival.

Kiri: survival, uh-huh.

Russ: okay, now how are you going to be able to raise your consciousness and still deal with survival? Seems like survival is going to be a full-time job at that point.

Kiri: you need goods and stuff right? Money will always be around. If you've got no skills, how do you make money in an environment that's gone to pot? There's no more electrical power, there's no more TV, there's no more waves coming through the air with music in them....radio.....how do you make a living?

Russ: labor?

Kiri: well supposing you're not strong enough?

Russ: barter off your services as a.....I don't know.

Kiri: I'll give you a clue, let me tell you a story.

Russ: oh a bard?

Kiri: yes. You can play a musical instrument can't you?

John: oh I used to play a trombone when I was quite a bit younger.

Kiri: uh-huh. See a musician, you can play the drums. Don't know what Mark can do. Doesn't have much of a singing voice but there again he is a poet.

Russ: uh-huh, we'll figure out skills and stuff as we go along.

Kiri: well Mark can always hire himself out with his weapon skills and so on. Don't think he would enjoy being a mercenary.

John: and you could do bartering couldn't you?

Kiri: uh-huh.

John: where you would take maybe some of your vegetables and herbs and trade them with someone else who may be raising chickens for eggs or whatever?

Kiri: that's right.

John: that would be a feasible, viable..

Kiri: uh-hum, exactly.

John: that's how people survived on the planet for a long time.

Kiri: uh-huh, Tia says a very good example is Sarajevo? Sarajevo, thank you Tia.

Russ: well there is also the issue of a co-op.

Kiri: uh-huh.

Russ: being able to create one and maintain one. Right now it wouldn't be a practical matter due to the fact that there is a surplus of goods, money and everyone doesn't need anything from everyone else yet.

Kiri: that's right.

Russ: but in the future, a co-op would be a very handy little item to have or to create.

Kiri: yes, you could survive.

Russ: right now, about the raising of consciousness part....

Kir: uh-huh.

Russ: two ways to do that.....

Kiri: uh-huh.

Russ: number one, some of the goods that you use as barter would be as a teacher of psychic abilities let say.......

Kiri: yeah.

Russ: in which in that way you increase your own abilities while increasing somebody else's.

Kiri: yeah.

Russ: okay?

Kiri: there are other ways of making money with abilities.

(does some sleight-of-hand)

Kiri: where did it go?

John: in your other hand.

Kiri: I know, I'm giving a demonstration.

Russ: the other way would be working within the co-op that you form among those people wishing to work on cooperating with goods and services and forming study groups.

Kiri: yeah.