(Tia goes over the aftermath of an economic collapse and things that would lead up to that. From there we go into the realities that may occur and some very important things that could be done ahead of time to come through it with as little stress as possible. She brings up the two phases to go through, the survival phase and the recovery phase as we discuss how to get through each.) 

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Russ: now, here’s the point I want to get to next. We’ve always discussed how you would lose that money okay?

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: that is not would cause a major trouble spots as you’re talking about.

Tia: uh-huh, I’m talking about a massive, major drop.

Russ: right, but what would happen next would be the banks right?

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: because the banks, if I have it straight, they also invest heavily in the market.....

Tia: correct.

Russ: using people’s funds that they’ve deposited to invest and make more money which they in turn allow…..or allowed them to have more money to lend out.

Tia: correct.

Russ: okay, now what I see is happening now if I can get this straight, this will help our webpage folk out there who are following this….

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: is that first place, those people who have borrowed money from the banks, would be unable to pay back the money due to the losses they have sustained….

Tia: correct.

Russ: which would go out of business. Those people who have put money into the bank would see the banks failing…..

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: due to the losses that they’re taking from the investments they’ve made.

Tia: correct.

Russ: thereby creating a little…..a lessening then of the confidence in the banking facility they go with therefore wanting their money brought out. The banks themselves only hold about 20% of the funds that are actually deposited in them.

Tia: correct so far.

Russ: so, would a run on the banks from people wanting their money out of there would cause bank closures which would mean….

Tia: incorrect. You ever been to your bank and read the thing of the FIDE?

Russ: FDIC?

Tia: yes.

Russ: uh-huh. Federal depositor’s insurance credit?

Tia: correct.

Russ: uh-huh.

Tia: that is for such an eventuality. That is so that your investment right?

Russ: uh-huh.

Tia: let us say your bank spends all your money that you have in there on investments and then goes broke.

Russ: correct.

Tia: the government steps in or the federal investors step in and reimburse you what the bank has lost in an insurance way…..

Russ: theoretically.

Tia: up to the amount that you have in there.

(Ed. note: up to $250,000.00)

Russ: but, what we’re talking about is a massive bank closings on a major scale.

Tia: no, no, no, you just missed something there.

Russ: what?

Tia: what happens if the federal government has to bail out the banks? Where does the money come from?

Russ: it gets printed.

Tia: which does what?

Russ: creates inflation.

Tia: which in turn does what?

Russ: Germany 1940……no, 1936.

Tia: wrong, 1926.

Russ: '26. That’s right, the Nazis were already a party in ‘36.

Tia: correct.

Russ: right. Okay, so with a lack plus, the banks would be unable to lend any more money.

Tia: correct.

Russ: now, not being able to lend money would create people not being able to invest in businesses, homes, cars and other things that keep America going.....

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: because there would be no credit available. Credit cards.......

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: the debt from the credit cards alone would cripple the economy.

Tia: correct.

Russ: and with the banks closing, what would happen to the credit cards issued by the banks?

Tia: they would be worthless pieces of plastic.

Russ: nobody would be able to use them correct?

Tia: correct. And your economy being based on these worthless pieces of plastic would go (blows a raspberry) Which is spelled P.H.E.E.E.W. (blows another raspberry).

Russ: okay. All right so anyway, people even with great credit, money in the bank and everything…

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: would be broke.

Tia: no.

Russ: I mean they have money coming back but at the inflationary levels that would be rising….

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: they'd be essentially as good as broke.

Tia: no, no. You see the thing is that the rich, how did they get rich?

Russ: they inherited it.

Tia: okay, so people that went out and made money are quite capable of doing it again. They just have to learn or remember how they did it. People that inherited it right? Tend to have a tougher time because it was handed to them but nine times out of ten, the majority of them are astute enough to be able to make wise decisions with their money and make investments. I’m not saying making investments in stocks and bonds and dividends and shares and so on, but be able to make wise decisions in opening up a grocery store on the corner in the ideal location. It’s those common people that invest in the market through their banks that have the problem. Let us say we take the house husband on the corner right?

Russ: uh-huh.

Tia: that scrimps and saves and deposits let’s say 2,000 of his dollars in the bank account…..

Russ: right.

Tia: or in a bank that invests his money in the market. That’s the people that will suffer, not the people that have lots of money, not the people that are the serious investors that admittedly yes they will be almost wiped out in a crash. You see what I’m saying? Those people that have the money will not be the ones that suffer.

Russ: now what about us folks who have no money whatsoever into the market?

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: our money is basically just hand to fist.

Tia: uh-huh, hand to fist huh? That’s a strange expression.

Russ: right, but basically it’s not something we don't save up, we just live on what we make and buy what we need as we go.

Tia: uh-huh. Now it depends if the places that you work at are investing or are invested in by people that will be affected by the market. Take for example your workplace right? Okay, let us say that the stock market crashes right?

Russ: right.

Tia: and people start to have a tough time and need to get rid of their communication devices like the picture imaging device, their musical devices, they have to sell them to make money.

Russ: right.

Tia: what are they going to do for entertainment? Where are they going to go?

Russ: well, they'll go to the movie theaters….

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: if they’re running.

Tia: correct.

Russ: if not, go down to the beach and watch a lovely sunset.

Tia: uh-huh, which is good for the spiritual development.

Russ: oh yes, absolutely.

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: now.....but at the same time, that’s a very happy kind of positive way of looking at it.

Tia: yes it is.

Russ: but that’s not actually what would happen.

Tia: no.

Russ: what would actually happen, people would have #*&!@ fits. Excuse my blank, blank, blank fits.

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: and with that, sunsets at the beach are the last thing they’re going to be thinking about.

Tia: no, people still enjoy the finer things in life. How much does it cost to go and watch a sunset?

Russ: it’s free.

Tia: how much does it cost to go and watch a moon rise?

Russ: alright let's take a local example…

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: of on a smaller scale.....

Tia: okay.

Russ: of someone who suddenly loses their job and doesn’t have any income coming in due to the fact that the income from the current market that he is in is dead.

Tia: uh-huh, correct.

Russ: so, in that occurrence, you can see a small scale version of what the larger scale would look like.

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: not a pretty picture.

Tia: isn’t that what we said back before this started?

Russ: oh yes, oh yes. We absolutely.....I mean you called it on the money and it's on the webpage even.

Tia: uh-huh, before it happened.

Russ: right.

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: and it’s that being able to keep your head in a surrounding where others are losing theirs.

Tia: uh-huh and in this case it looks more like it is not happening that way.

Russ: correct. Now as this is a small scale example….

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: on a larger scale, that would affect us on a local basis.

Tia: correct. Let us say for example there is massive flooding in the Central Valley as happens….

Russ: uh-huh.

Tia: okay, which takes out the price of food.

Russ: correct.

Tia: if you go to your local supermarket, I watched Mark when he went shopping, I noted the prices. The prices are up.

Russ: hmm.

Tia: only a couple cents here and there.

Russ: how about the green and red peppers?

Tia: I believe they're up to I think $1.59 a pound as opposed to being something like $1.49 at about Christmas time. That’s a jump of $.10 per pound.

Russ: uh-huh.

Tia: now if you look at the prices of everything jumping up, let’s say anywhere from $.01 to $.10 right?

Russ: right.

Tia: let us say that you buy things by the pound.

Russ: uh-huh.

Tia: you’re spending $.01 to $.10 more than you were two months ago.

Russ: right.

Tia: let us say that you bought five pounds at Christmas time of bell peppers right? For whatever reason.

Russ: uh-huh.

Tia: now you’re paying an extra $.50 more for that five pounds.

Russ: yeah, it’s not horrible if you can afford it.

Tia: uh-huh but if you can’t?

Russ: but if you can’t afford it, then you go through what we're seeing now which is depression…

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: anxiety…

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: stress, headaches…..

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: and a basic tearing down of the ego and personality.

Tia: correct and you go in this cycle. You go depression, anxiety, stress, headaches, depression, anxiety and so on in this nice big circle going around and around and as it goes around it spirals up and in and in and in until it reaches a point where it can't go any further and something has to happen at that point. Now that point I see is a long way away but it depends on how fast the spiraling is going. “Can’t work because too depressed, don’t want to go out and look for work, don’t want to go and look for work, where am I going to get my money from?” Worrying about money increases stress, “what am I going to do, what am I going to do?”, headache. Headache, "oh God, I’ve got a headache, I can’t work, I’m depressed" which goes back to stress and so on.

Russ: now if you’re starting to see this increase in numbers….

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: which already has started….

Tia: yes.

Russ: then there are couple options that will like I foresee happening and I want to get your opinion on this. People will tend to move out of that area......

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: where's there’s jobs. Where there's no jobs, there’s nowhere to work.

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: now the other option is becoming a burden on the system.

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: now in either case, if you go somewhere else, you might find a job and do well.

Tia: that’s the key phrase there, might.

Russ: correct. The other option is that your depression from before, will carry over.

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: you’re already in a fragile state of mind, let's see you get a job. Well let's just say your lack of self-confidence now….

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: might be detrimental to your work ethics.

Tia: exactly and the spiral starts again.

Russ: right. So at what point do we see this on the large scale? When the bank start to go or that Wall Street starts to go?

Tia: when the banks......most people aren't concerned that much with Wall Street.

Russ: with Wall Street but they don’t see the tie between the banks and Wall Street either though.

Tia: correct. Even if Wall Street crashes right?

Russ: uh-huh.

Tia: and drops down to 2,000 or 3,000 right?

Russ: right.

Tia: they're not going to be too concerned because the banks are still there until the banks start to go.

Russ: they'll just turn into burning shells of buildings at that point.

Tia: basically yes and when they do that, then the cycle will really get underway. People will go, “oh my God, I’ve got no money, what do we do?”

Russ: correct. Now in our point, we'll get that maybe a month after it starts to go down in the big cities.

Tia: yeah.

Russ: no not really, I guess it would be the other way around, same time right?

Tia: it depends, it really does depend on the environment that you’re in, the situation that you’re in.

Russ: let's say you’re in an urban, farming zone.

Tia: uh-huh, which is basically what this is.

Russ: correct or Minden, Gardnerville, something like that, where do you see that as being part of it?

Tia: I would say that that would be the lucky end for the simple reason that from time to time when you're driving around, you see farmers at the side of the road selling produce.

Russ: uh-huh.

Tia: right they’re circumventing the whole entire chain. They produce food, it goes to a wholesaler, the wholesaler sells it to the stores, you go to the stores and buy it. They can sell it $0.10 to $0.20 cheaper than at the supermarket.

Russ: so if you had a supply…

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: of items, not produce so much though that would be good but other items.

Tia: luxury items.

Russ: luxury items that would suddenly become in short order or high demand.......

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: then you could do the same basic thing as the farmers are doing...

Tia: correct.

Russ: circumvent the system.

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: because the system's going down.

Tia: correct.

Russ: now with the stocking of supplies…..

Tia: uh-huh.

(someone knocks at the door)

Russ: come in.

Tia: enter.

John: it’s Johnny.

Russ: come in Johnny.

Tia: come on, come in.

John: is it safe?

Russ: sure.

Tia: yeah, I don’t bite unless you want me to.

Russ: so basically what might be advisable…..

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: is let’s say the rental of a space……

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: have a seat bud......that would be able to hold enough stock that you could go to....

Tia: uh-huh. 

Russ: to circumvent the system.

Tia: correct.

Russ: now the trouble is finding the stock and packing it away.

Tia: it depends on what you’re interested in. Okay, let us take your most basic setup in a house.

Russ: uh-huh.

Tia: okay. If I look around the apartment up here, I will find towels, bed clothes, normal clothing, tampons, panty pads, shampoo, soap, toilet paper, all these things aren’t on your survival list are they?

Russ: uh-uh.

Tia: not that you guys are going to need Tampax's or panty pads.

Russ: no true but the thing is, while those things all would make great commodities, what would be the most tradable good for the most money or in this case other tradable goods?

Tia: things that you use that are disposable.

Russ: now this I disagree with on one point.

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: yes that’s true but wouldn't something that people would look to in a panic situation be more advisable? For example ammunition, guns, items to defend yourself with?

Tia: to a certain extent yes, but….

Russ: then they think about these other things as secondary.

Tia: well these other things are more for the recovery, trade goods.

Russ: well that’s why I’m dealing with this with you now is on the two different stages we’re looking at here.

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: surviving up until the recovery point.

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: okay now, so what I'm talking about is goods that you can use to get you through to the recovery zone and those items which you can use during the recovery zone.

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: okay? Two different steps, two different kinds of goods.

Tia: yes but the part leading up to the start of the recovery will not be that long. For example, you have your crash right? Everybody panics.......

Russ: right.

Tia: everybody fights amongst themselves, once that's over right?

Russ: uh-huh.

Tia: then that starts the recovery. And it depends on how quickly people can get back on their feet and take the bull by the horns and push ahead with doing things. The economy's collapsed right?

Russ: uh-huh.

Tia: people are looking for food and anything to survive right? You don’t use your food supply as trade goods because that draws attention to yourself.

Russ: correct.

Tia: what you do use is things like.......what one thing does everybody on your planet do?

Russ: eat.

Tia: no, that would involve using your food supply.

Russ: okay.

Tia: but you’re close.

Russ: you mean go to the bathroom?

Tia: correct. Everybody needs to use something to clean their bottoms when they’ve been to the bathroom. Whether it’s a leaf or newspaper or toilet paper, everybody has to clean their tush.

Russ: okay.

Tia; if you don’t, it leads to unsanitary conditions and so on.

Russ: never really thought about it like that but okay......

Tia: uh-huh. So, you stock up on toilet paper, everybody needs that but how often does somebody think about toilet paper? In all your survival movies....

Russ: like every time I go to the bathroom.

Tia: all your war moves, all your horror movies, have you ever see anybody go to the bathroom?

Russ: yeah.

Tia: but it’s not very often is it?

Russ: no.

Tia: so you have something that everybody needs.

Russ: so, this is stuff for the recovery phase?

Tia: correct, easy, tradeable goods.

Russ: alright now you say the survival phase…

Tia: uh-huh. 

Russ: is not going to be very long.

Tia: well the definition of long depends.

Russ: correct and that’s where I’m getting to.

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: how long is long?

Tia: a year.

Russ: see that’s a long time.

Tia: no it’s not.

Russ: well not if you live for a thousand years, no.

Tia: I wouldn’t live for a thousand years, I will be lucky if I live for 300 years.

(because she is Durondedunn and not Sirian)

Russ: 300 years but one year out of 300 is not very much. One year when all hell is breaking loose can mean an eternity.

Tia: can seem like it yes.

Russ: sure. So probably the best bet.....

Tia: uh-huh. 

Russ: if I've got this right, is in the survival phase being as unnoticeable as possible….

Tia: yeah, being.......

Russ: well defended, well-fed and unnoticed whatsoever.

Tia: well-fed yes but not appearing to be well-fed.

Russ: correct.

Tia: if you go around looking sleek, well-fed and not constantly looking for food, you're going to draw attention to yourself. People are going to say, "what are those guys up to, why do they always look so good, healthy whereas we look like hell on wheels?"

Russ: right, okay.

Tia: so even if you have plenty of food, you still ration yourselves.

Russ: so essentially, you're not worried about....worried about doing anything on supply-side until the recovery phase begins?

Tia: correct.

Russ: so the survival phase is merely survival.

Tia: correct, which works on the primary functions of not drawing attention to yourself, keeping a low profile, teamwork and keeping things in appearance with what is going on.

Russ: blending in.

Tia: blending it. Once the recovery starts, then you can put yourself in a position where you don’t advertise, you don’t tell anybody but somebody says to you, "oh, I really would love to use some paper to go the bathroom with." You could say, "sure, let me have a look around and see if I can help you."

Russ: correct. Okay, anything else on that subject?

Tia: oh well I could say lots on that subject.

Russ: well we’ll save it for next week.

Tia: okay, I suppose you want to talk to the next person?

Russ: well, we might as well share the time tonight. Besides, remember I’ve got to type all this in and insert it into a webpage.

Tia: so, you can paint a worse picture as you like, you have to think of everything in worst-case scenario. You can look at everything in a positive or negative light. The experience itself is either positive or negative, there is no middle ground. To recover from the situation, you have to be able to balance things in such a way that you do not appear too prominent but not too lowly because when you’re weak and lowly you become a target for those that are in better condition.

Russ: uh-huh.

Tia: in turn, you have to maintain a level where you are not noticeable, where you are in good condition and able to advance but yet again not be noticed. So you see?

Russ: right.

Tia: okay?

(Tia says goodbye in Durondedunn)

Russ: good night.